atypical career post-MBA

[ziggi]

Hey all,
I've posted a bunch on this site and have read alot too, I am still not entirely sure what the heck I'd do after an MBA.
However I'm almost positive that I'm not going to go into investment banking and all that other stuff...well basically I refuse to work 80 hour weeks,my family life is infinitely more important and I don't want to spend a fortune on shrinks for my kids b/c daddy was working all the time.
Anyway what I am really considering is working for international organisations (World bank, IMF, government etc etc) in the defense or consumer goods industry...preferably the former. I am however plannin on attending a top 10 B-school preferably Wharton's MBA/MA in international studies program.

Any ideas on whether or not an atypical career path post MBA will improve my chances of entry and how feasible is such a career path?

Thnx

[philipwhite]

Are you talking about your written essays. I'm sure if you change your mind after admitted no harm is done. :) Career paths often don't go as planned.

[mike]

Ziggi-
Your career plans don't sound so atypical. Something I've heard more MBA schools are realizing is that the goal of the cohort is a healthy work-life balance. Having said that- what you'd really like to do doesn't sound so atypical either. I mean- sure; there are plenty of burgeoning VC's and Investment Bankers, Consultants and Product Managers who don't mind sacraficing everything for their career, but schools are realizing that in order to get the most out of life- you have to play hard too- so they're integrating ways to balance the play time and work time effectively.

There are also plenty in every program who want to do good in the world and in my class there are a few who have a direct interest in the IMF and World Bank. We have a classmate who was working at the World Bank for the past 5 years before his MBA.

So- while you might think that you might be alone and isolated in an MBA program, I assure you that you're not and you'll have classmates to look into doing good in the world with you!

[ziggi]

Umm doing good, sure.... just kidding ;) . I don't so much want to do good as much as I want to decrease inefficiency, I'm an engineer, I dislike waste. And I like the international political trade scene as well as burgeoning markets development.

[philipwhite]

Sounds like you might want to look into opperations management since you have a background in engineering. Operations mgrs trim a lot of waste. They usually get paid pretty well too.

[ziggi]

I've heard quite a bit about ops mgmt, never looked into it though. One of the primary reasons for getting my MBA is to move away from engineering and manufacturing and into global trade and monetary policy, ideally with regards to the defense industry and/or the technology industry.

Embassies, airports and factories have always interested me more than office buildings.

[tonywisdom]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I am interested in international development issues and I'm combining my MBA with a degree in international policy (called MPP- master of public policy).

IF you are really interested in pursuing the international angle, I would strongly urge you to do a supplemental degree in policy or international affairs. It will help you tremendously because that part of the program will give you the practice and skills in evaluating/creating good policy measures on a global setting. Check out programs at Georgetown if you are into this area as well - you can't beat the location for this type of work (WB, IMF are pretty much across the street!). A lot of people there intern for these organizations during school part-time which can give a big boost in terms of job prospects. Also, for the MA part, check out SAIS (Johns Hopkins), one of the best IA programs in the country also.

[ziggi]

Thanks tony,
I was actually looking at Georgetown's offerings, however I didn't look at the MBA offerings, only the foreign service offerings. I also looked at the Wharton/SAIS program as well as the Wharton/Lauder MBA/MA program.
The three years required for Wharton/SAIS really don't appeal to me, I'll be doing the program in my early thirties (in about 5 or 6 years) I'll also have kids by then, so by the time I'm done I'll be about 35.

In your opinion are the three years of Wharton/SAIS worth it with regards to the work I can attain post-grad?

[tonywisdom]

hey ziggi,

You ask some good questions!

Ok, here is how I see it . . . if you are serious about working for an international development org. like WB IMF etc., it is tough getting in because they hire a lot of Phd's as opposed to MA's . . . not to say that you can't work there if you only have a master's but its certainly tougher to get through the door.

So . . . thats why I think doing an MBA and then getting a brand like SAIS etc. will be HUGE in terms of pursuing those careers without getting the Phd. I understand where you are coming from in terms of age and stuff but let me tell you firsthand (I attend the Georgetown MBA/MPP program) that many, many people in the program are your age. You will by no means be the oldest person in the program or feel strange or anything like that. . . In fact, I feel strange sometimes being in the program because I am much more towards the younger spectrum of students while many are 30 to 40. . . Also, I feel like having a lot of experience will help you not just in the MBA program but will really help in the Policy/Affairs program because older people generally know a bit more about the world and can offer more in discussions.

So I think that all in all, an extra year isn't bad for two degrees! I can understand where ur coming from but definitely consider it because i think the program you mentioned is absolutely worth it . . I can't stress how much you will learn at SAIS (i have friends there) and how much that will help you in an internationally oriented career.

Check out Georgetown's programs too . . I know their MBA is not considered as high as Wharton or Harvard but let me tell you that I think its underrated BIG-TIME. . . Just look at the salaries!! Plus, the Georgetown MSFS (master of foreign service program) is TOP NOTCH!! That might be the best IA type program on the planet (the faculty is littered with ex-World Bank people- the former USAID director teaches there now, its crazy). Also check out GPPI (Georgetown's Public Policy Program), it has an international development track and is a great program as well (much more emphasis on quantitative research, statistical analysis compared to the MSFS program). Both have a double degree program with the Georgetown Business school which is like top 20 or 25 in most rankings. The extremely cool thing about the G-Town Business program is that all second year students work on an international consulting project from a country of their choice (and go to cities like Shanghai, Delhi, many other places) and actually GO to the country to present their solutions/findings etc. to management for several weeks!!

[ziggi]

Tony, thanks for the info,
I looked into the MSFS program at Georgetown, it sounds excellent. I wasn't aware that they had a MSFS/MBA program at Georgetown but that's one I'll seriously consider.
I'm not too worried about the B-school rankings, they tend to be geared towards finance and banking types, trade and government policy interests me more, specifically in the defense and technology sectors.
While I'd like a good salary, I'm more concerned with a good interesting job post-grad.

I'm being nit-picky b/c I plan to sell everything I own and uproot the family here in Canada to go to univ in the States in about 5 years, it's pretty much my life story, I'm a third generation immigrant :) , ie. the past three generations in my family have immigrated somewhere, my parents took it to the extreme, 4 countries.

My wife asked me what I would prefer to have when I hit 50, a gorgeous home and a nice car or a decent home and car and plenty of memorabilia and photos of me with world leaders as well as a sense that I tilted the path of world events even a bit. I chose the latter. Now I'm just rambling.... good practice for my old age ;) .

Can you give me some info on the MBA/MPP program?
The type of people you work with, the methodology of teaching, the course work, are there alot of married people and a social club for student's spouses?

Thanks.

[tonywisdom]

Hey Ziggi,

Wow, thats a lot of moving! I feel you though, my parents immigrated here in the 80s after a lot of moving around the globe!!

I think if you are interested in government and policy, you may really really like G-Town. While a large portion of the G-Town MBAers go on to i-banking and the more typical careers you mentioned, you will find A LOT of like minded people who are interested in US Agency for Development and World Bank and such orgs.

Here is some info. on my program:

(By the way, there is an MSFS/MBA program, great one . . . but you must apply to both programs at the same time . . . For my program MBA/MPP, you can apply into one or the other during the first year . . Most people apply from the MPP into the MBA.

Program details: You will generally start the program in the policy school and spend the entire first year there. The courses consist of a few core courses and then electives in your track. For the international track, we take courses in comparative policy analysis (studying policy making in different countries such as developed ones in Europe and developing ones in Africa) to get a sense of how institutions in all parts of the world work. Then we have a three course quantitative sequence which is basically three statistics courses (focusing on regression analysis). Then we have a micro and macro economics course followed by a public finance course. The rest are electives to be taken in your track of choice. The faculty is really amazing . . . one of my courses, international economic policy is taught by a former Kofi Annan economic advisor!! Most of the classes are very small 10 to 20(tops) students and they are all discussion settings. We do the readings and then dicuss them or do small presentations on them etc.

Basically, the major difference between the MPP and MSFS is the quantitative rigor v.s. theory. Our MPP program is heavy into quantitative research and knowing how to read/create studies . . . I feel like we get some real, tangible tools (we all must becomes proficient in SAS, a stats computer program where all our quant analysis is done) while the MSFS delves more into political theory. I'm not saying that we don't, we certainly do, but there is a huge emphasis on learning the math in our program!!

So then . . . the second year (I'm not there quite yet :) . . . we spend in the business school. . . the whole year we take their classes . . typical stuff the first year with many required courses in finance, accouting, boringology and other stuff :( But . . . .

Then the third year, we combine both programs . . . IN the MPP program, we have to write a thesis in the last semester. It sounds terrible but its not that bad . . . It is a quantitative thesis where we analyze a data set, run the regressions and present our findings . . Since I'm in international policy, I will likely choose something relating to country growth models and try something related to development goals (or so I say!).

But the third year is really intense because we also have to work on that consulting project I mentioned and then we head abroad in the second semester of the third year to complete the project . . . It is really intense but I hear that its a good kind of intense!

Overall, I admit that I really love the program I'm in . . . What I like is that its not a cut-throat, lets outdo the person next to us atmosphere . . . Both programs are full of people that help each other out and no one's trying to screw over anyone else . . . I'm sure some of those top b-schools aren't exactly like that!

Oh, and the MBA program has a very active club for people who are married and plans activities and numerous things for them. In fact, they just sent me an invite to one of their gatherings (all I need now is a wife!) haha!! But they have a huge club for that and many, many of the b-school people are married. . . . which sucks for the rest of us who are trying to pick chicks up! :) But in all seriousness, the program is not "young" by any means. The b-school is a little older than the MPP program but avg. ages for both are around 27 to 29. Then there are people on all sides of that.

So I hope this helps and please don't hesitate to ask if I missed something or you have more questions . . . if you want to know more about courses or something specific, let me know.

[ziggi]

Thanks for all the info tony,
I was looking at the website, public policy doesn't interest me as much as foreign studies does, both are interesting nonetheless. And it's good to know that my wife won't be sans support. And that I can get into the MSFS without too many problems.

BTW how many hours a week do you typically spend in classes and doing homework?
And so far how much money has the experience cost you?
What are the type of personalities in the program? I'd assume that there is a mix, although there is usually a majority, I ask this b/c I have a tough time getting along with the peppy, prim and perfect people.....it's a long story. Only 26 and I'm already cynical ;) .
How are the internship opportunities? Have you gone on any yet?

I have more but that's all I can remember now.

[tonywisdom]

No problem, I hope all the info. helps! Well, I am a full-time student (they are part-time programs for both as well) so I have at least two to four hours of work per day . . . It may not be totally constant like that, it gets much more busy when we have problem sets due or something like that but in general the work load is heavy because of all the reading we have to do. The readings are insane!!! Sometimes, the professor will assign an entire book thats to be finished by next weeks class on a dry subject like pension reform . . . that can be a bit much but I find the readings to usually be quite interesting.

The program is expensive as hell . . . . It costs a bit over 30 grand a year and if you are in the MBA/MPP, they charge you at MBA rates which is a bit more. Its heinously expensive but they do give out merit scholarships which can be quite generous (based on past academic performance) so that has helped me out bigtime!

There are all kinds of people in my program. There are the "save the world" types, some peppy, prim people (but these are usually found in the b-school) but honestly, I think the vast majority of the people in the program are amazing and you will certainly learn from them because they all have very unique backgrounds.

The big advantage about going to school in DC is the ability to intern at one of these huge orgs during the school year. I've interned for the UN so far and there are many chances to try out different orgs and see what you like. Now, I'm working on stuff for the summer so its gonna be busy again. But there are countless internship postings that our career services dept. sends out to us. Well, let me know if you want other details whenever!

[ziggi]

PENSION REFORM ???!!! AWESOME!!! ;)

What are the merit scholarships based on? Financial need? Grades?

Also what sort of work did you do during your internship?
And what other orgs take in interns? I would really like to work for NATO, UN Security or some country's foreign policy arm.
What sort of pay is common during these internships and what's to be expected post-grad?

The student population sounds like your typical group, those 'save the worlders' are not gonna be happy with me when they find out I want to go into defense trade and policy ;) .

Thanks for being a treasure trove of knowledge tony.

[tonywisdom]

I believe the merit scholarships are based on merit but I can't be sure of exactly what they look for . . I probably wouldn't have gotten one if it was based purely need based.

In my internship, I was basically doing research on different policy topics. My boss was in charge of govt. relations and I had to put together a lot of research packets for her on issues that would pop up around the world related to the agency. People also intern for Trade organizations, health related orgs, and basically everything kind of org that exists in D.C.

Sometimes pay may be nonexistent . . the UN does not pay interns . . . That sucks but its prestigious and can help with future jobs. If they like you at these places, I'm sure they'll consider hiring you later and this happens quite frequently but they are certainly under no obligation to hire interns fulltime.

But I think regardless, its a big advantage to be able to intern during the year when other students don't have the opportunity. You would have a number of places to choose from!!

[ziggi]

Thnx Tony,
Sorry to keep bugging you like this, but I've got some more questions.
How does the internship work, is it during the summer or during the school year? What about the hours? Can you give me a more detailed example of the work you did durign your internship?
Thanks alot.